News Hundreds killed in Gaza hospital massacre

[Al]

Also, my problem with this whole ‘Hamas started this’ angle is that, well… they didn’t.

Who said they did?

We will never determine ‘who started it’ and thats such a simplistic, trite and immature way of approaching geopolitics. Trying to apportion blame to justify continued aggression is pointless. There is always something else. Its ‘whataboutism’ writ large.

Is it Hamas, or Israel, or Egypt, or the US for recognising and therefore legitimising the Jewish state in ‘48? Or Great Britain who administered Palestine and agreed to the formation of a Jewish state in 1917, or the Ottoman Empire or the Romans or the Babylonians, or the, or the, or the…?

There is always someone else to blame and it’s bullshit. The situation is what the situation is. Gaza and the West Bank need to be given full autonomy as the nation of Palestine.

Israel’s official position is the two-state solution. It calls for peaceful coexistence on the condition of demilitarisation. It sees Hamas as an existential threat and won’t lift the blockade on Gaza as long as Hamas are launching rockets into Israel. So we are at a bit of an impasse.

There is no trust and there needs to be trust. Israel continues to build settlements in the West Bank in blatant disregard for international law. They need to stop and withdraw. Show they are willing to negotiate.

As for Gaza and Hamas I don’t think people realise just how much the 7-10 attacks wounded Israel. Their intelligence agencies didn’t see it, didn’t stop it, and the losses were significant. Some refer to it as Israel’s 9/11. Israel will not stop until Hamas has been eradicated. And I don’t think the people of Israel give a shit how many Palestinian civilians are killed in the process.

Whatever chance there was of a peaceful solution for the people of Palestine and Israel has been put back 50 years or more by Hamas’ October offensive. Some might say that Israel cannot be trusted to grant Palestine full autonomy…

Now we will never know.

You asked me what the aims of the attacks on October 7th were. What were the aims of Israel’s attacks on a mosque back in April?

You’ve got this ‘answering a question with a question’ thing nailed, mate. I’d be impressed if it wasn’t so piss-poor.

Isn’t that the perfection (sic) definition of what the US & UK did to Iraq?

We’re not talking about Iraq. This is ‘whataboutism’ once more. If you wanna debate Iraq, start a new thread.

 

[Excommunicado]

Israel’s official position is the two-state solution. It calls for peaceful coexistence on the condition of demilitarisation.

Come on buddy, you're making me laugh now.

"We've taken most of your country but we'll let you keep a city or two and call it a state, but you can't have a military, and you're just going to have to take our word for it, even though we lie to you every time"

They need to stop and withdraw. Show they are willing to negotiate.

Whatever chance there was of a peaceful solution for the people of Palestine and Israel has been put back 50 years or more by Hamas’ October offensive. Some might say that Israel cannot be trusted to grant Palestine full autonomy…

You've just contradicted yourself. Israel weren't showing any signs of stopping and withdrawing so how has this put a 'solution' back for 50 years or more? Israel were in a comfortable position and there was no solution in the works, you've just said it yourself.

As for Gaza and Hamas I don’t think people realise just how much the 7-10 attacks wounded Israel. Their intelligence agencies didn’t see it, didn’t stop it, and the losses were significant. Some refer to it as Israel’s 9/11. Israel will not stop until Hamas has been eradicated. And I don’t think the people of Israel give a shit how many Palestinian civilians are killed in the process.

Why are you justifying Israel's actions? You're a neutral, remember?

You’ve got this ‘answering a question with a question’ thing nailed, mate. I’d be impressed if it wasn’t so piss-poor.

You're missing the point. Of course this particular attack by Israel in April wasn't to the same extent, but that's not the point. Also, it's not the only surprise attack Israel have done over the years, there's plenty of contenders. Back to the point though, please explain to me what Israel's aims were? Why can Israel do whatever it feels like without any questions asked but when it's Hamas, they have to explain why they did it?

We’re not talking about Iraq. This is ‘whataboutism’ once more. If you wanna debate Iraq, start a new thread.

Once again, you're missing the point. This is not about Iraq, this is about hypocrisy. Don't pick and choose who you call a terrorist according to what suits your agenda, call all terrorists, terrorists. For someone who claims to be a neutral, you've decided who the bad guys are, in your words 'a terrorist organisation' and justified war crimes committed by the other side by saying 'it's like their 9/11 so they don't give a shit' and that's fine. The Israeli government, according to your dictionary definition, are also terrorists. They've acted unlawfully by violating international laws and killed thousands of civilians in pursuit of political aims. You've referred to Hamas as a terrorist organisation multiple times, why have you not done the same for the Israeli government? You're a neutral, right?

 

[Al]

All the best. Good luck. Adios.

 

[Excommunicado]

All the best. Good luck. Adios.

For someone that is supposedly neutral on this subject, you’ve certainly taken this a bit too personally. I deleted one of my earlier posts because you felt like I made it personal and then you proceeded to call me, and Discussion Hub, a rape and terrorism sympathiser. I did not take it personally though, it's a debate, stuff gets said. Maybe you shouldn't get involved in debates if you can't accept other people's opinions. I would expect a greater level of maturity from someone of your age but hey, hypocrisy has no age, right? Nonetheless, my aim was not to drive you away from the site but if you’re going to be all hypocritical about it, you do you. Discussion Hub is a platform for people to debate freely so if that upsets you, adios and good luck to you too!

 

[Uncrowned Guard]

Sadly as Hamas uses civilian areas to attack Israel from and stage weapons and Israel has basically dropped all rules of engagement towards Hamas, this is likely going to get much worse as both sides continue to commit war crimes in what is essentially a hopeless attempt to remove the other side from existence.

 

[eLdavis]

Given the mass spread of misinformation by the western media, I don’t believe a word these ‘experts’ say. I can’t convince you either. Sad truth is that we’ll never truly know and the culprit, whoever it may be, has escaped accountability for this catastrophe.

I agree. It is a very tragic situation and ‘peace’ is an almost impossible outcome.

I honestly don't understand what they gain in spreading false information at this level. With how things are, it's becoming really believe anything we see online these days.

 

[Sara]

Sadly this war is getting so much personal feelings and media drama around it that the details are likely to never be proven. The hospital explosion does seem to be a Hamas-generated incident, but overall the war as a whole is the second wrong answering the first wrongdoing. Granted, I (and most people) seem to have no answers on the correct solution here as simply having "peace" does not work out over and over again.

I never like this war on the day I saw it on news. They are getting more bitter and bad. The media can never tell the truth no matter how it looks in their eyes. I also don't have a solution to this too.